Saturday, May 29, 2010
Interview
I listened to the interview you posted TJ. Many atheists agree with this guy. I also agree that there are many kind generous people who are motivated to perform wonderful deeds through their faiths. Unfortunately, it is a mixed bag with all faiths - great evils are also inflicted on humanity through faith. More common though is simple hypocrisy (condemning gays while engaging in the gay life, advocating the sanctity of marriage while having an affair, etc.) Clearly the human condition involves imperfection in adherence to all faiths, philosophies, etc. No religion is all bad - but none are all good either. Generally it is the fundamentalists who drive me crazy.
Saturday, May 22, 2010
Actions should speak louder than words
Hi David,
You make a lot of valid points which I look forward to addressing but I am having a hard time keeping up. Again I ask that you be patient as I tackle each one. I guess I will put Adam and Eve on hold while I respond to your latest blog.
I certainly agree with you that we need more action on behalf of Christians. If every Christian stepped up and walked the walked---Oh what a world this would be. But I think you underscore the good done by Christianity. People have done harmful things in the name of Christianity but Christianity itself has had only positive effects. George Sarton, a historian of science, once said "The birth of Christianity changed forever the face of the Western World."
He was speaking about the much good Christians have done such as---The first hospitals were started under Christian influence. Blind, deaf, and mentally ill facilities were also started under Christianity. The Red Cross, Good will, and Salvation Army were founded by rock solid Christians; In fact the idea of charity arose out of Christianity. The abolition of slavery, the value and dignity of human life, the freedom of speech, the freedom and dignity of woman's rights all came from Christian values.
True Christian charity and effective Christian action come from a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ---a Christ-centered transformation of the heart.
It is the failure to distinguish between the Christian and those supposedly representing Christianity that so often gets most of the attention.
As far as sharing Jesus to people as well as lending a helping hand, what good is it to give someone food etc. but ignore the more important issues of the soul. Jesus said in the sermon on the mount "Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." It is usually the downcast and poor who most recognize and accept their need of a Savior.
When I went to India, I started to understand this verse. People were hungry not just for physical food but for soul food. They realized their need for something beyond the physical satisfaction. After returning to the states so many people said "I bet you wanted to bring those children home with you". Actually, that was not what was on my mind...I look around this country and all I see is kids and adults inundated with STUFF. We are so full of materialism we don't realize how naked and poor we really are. People here have the same need as the people in India but we are too stuffed to see what we really need. Isaiah says "Why do you spend money for what is not bread, And your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, eat what is good, And let your soul delight itself in abundance. Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live!"
Hypocrisy is believing there is a heaven and hell and then just choosing to address people's physical needs.
With all that said... I too wish actions spoke louder than words more often.
This will probably be my last blog for awhile as I am leaving for Rwanda and won't be back until June 12th.
Believer in Truth
You make a lot of valid points which I look forward to addressing but I am having a hard time keeping up. Again I ask that you be patient as I tackle each one. I guess I will put Adam and Eve on hold while I respond to your latest blog.
I certainly agree with you that we need more action on behalf of Christians. If every Christian stepped up and walked the walked---Oh what a world this would be. But I think you underscore the good done by Christianity. People have done harmful things in the name of Christianity but Christianity itself has had only positive effects. George Sarton, a historian of science, once said "The birth of Christianity changed forever the face of the Western World."
He was speaking about the much good Christians have done such as---The first hospitals were started under Christian influence. Blind, deaf, and mentally ill facilities were also started under Christianity. The Red Cross, Good will, and Salvation Army were founded by rock solid Christians; In fact the idea of charity arose out of Christianity. The abolition of slavery, the value and dignity of human life, the freedom of speech, the freedom and dignity of woman's rights all came from Christian values.
True Christian charity and effective Christian action come from a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ---a Christ-centered transformation of the heart.
It is the failure to distinguish between the Christian and those supposedly representing Christianity that so often gets most of the attention.
As far as sharing Jesus to people as well as lending a helping hand, what good is it to give someone food etc. but ignore the more important issues of the soul. Jesus said in the sermon on the mount "Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." It is usually the downcast and poor who most recognize and accept their need of a Savior.
When I went to India, I started to understand this verse. People were hungry not just for physical food but for soul food. They realized their need for something beyond the physical satisfaction. After returning to the states so many people said "I bet you wanted to bring those children home with you". Actually, that was not what was on my mind...I look around this country and all I see is kids and adults inundated with STUFF. We are so full of materialism we don't realize how naked and poor we really are. People here have the same need as the people in India but we are too stuffed to see what we really need. Isaiah says "Why do you spend money for what is not bread, And your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, eat what is good, And let your soul delight itself in abundance. Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live!"
Hypocrisy is believing there is a heaven and hell and then just choosing to address people's physical needs.
With all that said... I too wish actions spoke louder than words more often.
This will probably be my last blog for awhile as I am leaving for Rwanda and won't be back until June 12th.
Believer in Truth
A Priest Doing the Lords Work
I haven't read your post yet but will read and respond this weekend.
I'm starting a new book today - Tattoos on the Heart: The Power of Boundless Compassion. The author is a Jesuit priest who has committed his life to help gang members in the LA barrios leave gangs and train them to become productive members of society. (I just finished this book in case you are curious.) I am very impressed by people like this who dedicate their lives to work with the poor and less fortunate. If you cut from the New Testament all the words Jesus said about helping the poor there wouldn't be much left. Working with criminals to turn them to productive members of society is the highest form of this work. It seems to me that 99% of this priests work involves saving people from poverty and crime rather than hell. Perhaps this is because they are living in hell so preaching to them to accept Jesus to avoid hell would be silly and naive. His acts speak much loader than any words could. This man should be sainted by his church long before John Paul II.
I've read in the Gresham Outlook about a local minister who works to feed the poor. He also greatly impresses me. His church was not a beautiful building but instead wherever the poor could be found. He said (paraphrasing here) that feeding and helping the poor was his primary concern and converting them secondary (I assume a close 2nd). This differs I think from Jesus' approach - he talked endlessly about helping the poor but saving them from going to hell seemed to be his primary concern - as it does for most Christians. I don't remember this ministers name but perhaps you do. There are many many examples of all religions (even Islam) motivating people to commit themselves to selfless acts of courage and generosity. Faith is a great benefit to mankind in these cases. (And this is where I disagree with the more strident atheists that religion is always bad.) If only this were the case more often - I would even take 50% of the time. Sadly, it seems to be pretty rare. If is wasn't, food pantrys and soup kitchens would never be short of food. So often those that preach the loudest and judge most harshly are often the biggest hypocrites.
This was going to be a short post to announce my new book but you know me.....
I'm starting a new book today - Tattoos on the Heart: The Power of Boundless Compassion. The author is a Jesuit priest who has committed his life to help gang members in the LA barrios leave gangs and train them to become productive members of society. (I just finished this book in case you are curious.) I am very impressed by people like this who dedicate their lives to work with the poor and less fortunate. If you cut from the New Testament all the words Jesus said about helping the poor there wouldn't be much left. Working with criminals to turn them to productive members of society is the highest form of this work. It seems to me that 99% of this priests work involves saving people from poverty and crime rather than hell. Perhaps this is because they are living in hell so preaching to them to accept Jesus to avoid hell would be silly and naive. His acts speak much loader than any words could. This man should be sainted by his church long before John Paul II.
I've read in the Gresham Outlook about a local minister who works to feed the poor. He also greatly impresses me. His church was not a beautiful building but instead wherever the poor could be found. He said (paraphrasing here) that feeding and helping the poor was his primary concern and converting them secondary (I assume a close 2nd). This differs I think from Jesus' approach - he talked endlessly about helping the poor but saving them from going to hell seemed to be his primary concern - as it does for most Christians. I don't remember this ministers name but perhaps you do. There are many many examples of all religions (even Islam) motivating people to commit themselves to selfless acts of courage and generosity. Faith is a great benefit to mankind in these cases. (And this is where I disagree with the more strident atheists that religion is always bad.) If only this were the case more often - I would even take 50% of the time. Sadly, it seems to be pretty rare. If is wasn't, food pantrys and soup kitchens would never be short of food. So often those that preach the loudest and judge most harshly are often the biggest hypocrites.
This was going to be a short post to announce my new book but you know me.....
Friday, May 21, 2010
I will let God be the Judge
David,
You are right---Judgement is for God and I am thankful for this. God is the one who searches every heart and knows the intent of each person. But being a witness to the Truth is not judging another; it is simply showing others the way. Jesus came to be a witness to the Truth and as His followers we are to do the same. It is my joy and privilege to share Him with others. When you experience a relationship with Jesus Christ nothing else in life compares. You won't be able to keep it to yourself either.
Jeremiah says "If I say I'll never mention the LORD or speak in His name, His Word burns in my heart like a fire. It's like a fire in my bones! I am weary of holding it in." I so understand this!!
I can see why you think all religions say their books are correct and are from God but that doesn't mean one isn't real. There is counterfeit money but that doesn't negate the real stuff. Actually I think the fact that there are so many religions trying to point the way to eternal life only supports the argument for God and heaven. We were made with a desire to know our Maker but too many of us want to make Him in our own image (create our own God, on our terms) not realizing we were made in HIS image. We must come to Him on His terms not ours.
"Now this is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3
When you read this verse, His terms seem a little easy compared to all other religions. The Bible is the only religious book that shows it is not about man working or earning his way to heaven, nirvana (or becoming a god); It is about what God did for man so that we would be able to have a relationship with Him again(sacrificed His Son).
Those verses in Deuteronomy that you mentioned, show a God who is jealous for us. It is hard to believe but His love for us is deeper and greater than even ours for a spouse or a child. He is expressing the outcome of someone who is trying to take one of His own away. I think you would be willing to kill if someone was taking your child from you. The Old Testament is crammed full of verses of His unfailing love, His faithfulness, His trustworthiness...The same God is in the Old Testament as in the New Testament(don't forget Revelation).
God will not force us to choose Him (That is not love); In Isaiah 30, it says "But the LORD waits for you to come to Him so He can show you His love and compassion". Isaiah also says "The earth suffers for the sins of its people, for they have twisted the instructions of God, violated His laws, and broken His everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth and its people".
One more thought about the Bible. Can you say this about any prophet of those other books---
"He was born in an obscure village, the child of a peasant woman. He grew up in still another village, where he worked in a carpenter shop until he was thirty. Then for three years he was an itinerant preacher.
He never wrote a book.
He never held an office.
He never had a family or owned a house.
He didn't go to college.
He never traveled 200 miles from the place where he was born.
He did none of these things one usually associates with greatness.
He had no credentials but himself.
He was only 33 when public opinion turned against him. His friends ran away. He was turned over to his enemies and went through the mockery of a trial. He was nailed to a cross between two thieves.
Buried in a borrowed grave.
Nineteen centuries have come and gone, and today he is still the central figure of the human race, the leader of mankind's progress.
All the armies that ever marched, all the navies that ever sailed, all the parliaments that ever sat, all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man on earth as much as this ONE SOLITARY LIFE." Author Unknown
Believer in Truth
You are right---Judgement is for God and I am thankful for this. God is the one who searches every heart and knows the intent of each person. But being a witness to the Truth is not judging another; it is simply showing others the way. Jesus came to be a witness to the Truth and as His followers we are to do the same. It is my joy and privilege to share Him with others. When you experience a relationship with Jesus Christ nothing else in life compares. You won't be able to keep it to yourself either.
Jeremiah says "If I say I'll never mention the LORD or speak in His name, His Word burns in my heart like a fire. It's like a fire in my bones! I am weary of holding it in." I so understand this!!
I can see why you think all religions say their books are correct and are from God but that doesn't mean one isn't real. There is counterfeit money but that doesn't negate the real stuff. Actually I think the fact that there are so many religions trying to point the way to eternal life only supports the argument for God and heaven. We were made with a desire to know our Maker but too many of us want to make Him in our own image (create our own God, on our terms) not realizing we were made in HIS image. We must come to Him on His terms not ours.
"Now this is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3
When you read this verse, His terms seem a little easy compared to all other religions. The Bible is the only religious book that shows it is not about man working or earning his way to heaven, nirvana (or becoming a god); It is about what God did for man so that we would be able to have a relationship with Him again(sacrificed His Son).
Those verses in Deuteronomy that you mentioned, show a God who is jealous for us. It is hard to believe but His love for us is deeper and greater than even ours for a spouse or a child. He is expressing the outcome of someone who is trying to take one of His own away. I think you would be willing to kill if someone was taking your child from you. The Old Testament is crammed full of verses of His unfailing love, His faithfulness, His trustworthiness...The same God is in the Old Testament as in the New Testament(don't forget Revelation).
God will not force us to choose Him (That is not love); In Isaiah 30, it says "But the LORD waits for you to come to Him so He can show you His love and compassion". Isaiah also says "The earth suffers for the sins of its people, for they have twisted the instructions of God, violated His laws, and broken His everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth and its people".
One more thought about the Bible. Can you say this about any prophet of those other books---
"He was born in an obscure village, the child of a peasant woman. He grew up in still another village, where he worked in a carpenter shop until he was thirty. Then for three years he was an itinerant preacher.
He never wrote a book.
He never held an office.
He never had a family or owned a house.
He didn't go to college.
He never traveled 200 miles from the place where he was born.
He did none of these things one usually associates with greatness.
He had no credentials but himself.
He was only 33 when public opinion turned against him. His friends ran away. He was turned over to his enemies and went through the mockery of a trial. He was nailed to a cross between two thieves.
Buried in a borrowed grave.
Nineteen centuries have come and gone, and today he is still the central figure of the human race, the leader of mankind's progress.
All the armies that ever marched, all the navies that ever sailed, all the parliaments that ever sat, all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man on earth as much as this ONE SOLITARY LIFE." Author Unknown
Believer in Truth
Response, Response, Response
Hey, we agree on something! I also don't believe all religions can be correct. We differ on what that means - I don't think any are correct.
As I've posted before, I don't believe proof is necessary for a believer. Their belief is enough seems to me. One reason why I hold this opinion - the "proof" given strikes me as weak at best. Billions of Muslims will quote endlessly from their book to prove you are wrong - and it is a useless discussion in my mind since you both believe your proof. If you really believe in God let others be and let God sort it out when they kick the bucket. There is way too much judgement by believers that want to provide proof and as the bible says, "judge not lest you be judged". Few believers seem to live by that although progressive believers seem more inclined to do so.
The bible is perfect and is the inherent word of God? Even the largest Christian denomination (Catholic church) doesn't believe the the bible should be read as a literal work much less a work of science. And please explain why Deuteronomy 13:6, 8-15 is the inherent word of god. I have to believe that was written by a foolish man reflecting his ignorance. If it was written by a deity - or accurately reflects the deities word - that is no deity I would ever follow or love. I've never understood why good Christians don't cut the bible in half and throw away the old testament. How Jews base an entire religion on it I'll never fathom.
As I've posted before, I don't believe proof is necessary for a believer. Their belief is enough seems to me. One reason why I hold this opinion - the "proof" given strikes me as weak at best. Billions of Muslims will quote endlessly from their book to prove you are wrong - and it is a useless discussion in my mind since you both believe your proof. If you really believe in God let others be and let God sort it out when they kick the bucket. There is way too much judgement by believers that want to provide proof and as the bible says, "judge not lest you be judged". Few believers seem to live by that although progressive believers seem more inclined to do so.
The bible is perfect and is the inherent word of God? Even the largest Christian denomination (Catholic church) doesn't believe the the bible should be read as a literal work much less a work of science. And please explain why Deuteronomy 13:6, 8-15 is the inherent word of god. I have to believe that was written by a foolish man reflecting his ignorance. If it was written by a deity - or accurately reflects the deities word - that is no deity I would ever follow or love. I've never understood why good Christians don't cut the bible in half and throw away the old testament. How Jews base an entire religion on it I'll never fathom.
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